PEEVE ››
Planned "ladies nights," especially those where the hosts make a big deal out of the whole "no men allowed" aspect of things should one happen to walk by or ask "what are you doing?"
Gender segregation of this sort does not lead to women who are somehow more empowered, and in my experience, the supporters are usually really unhealthy in their dealings with men (and unwilling to do anything about it other than avoid them in really sanctimonious ways). Not only that, these occasions usually result in much shit-talking *about* men, which is pathetic and counterintuitive to the whole idea of strong, independent people with vaginas. I don't want to brush your hair for you, I don't want to discuss chocolate as though it is a spiritual path and not a food, and I don't want to hear how you hate your body but it's okay that we're talking about it because it's "just us girls". The last time the "separate but equal" doctrine worked--oh, wait, IT DIDN'T WORK.
— Diana from Brooklyn, NY | Other | 12.9.2008 | Comments (10)
COMMENTS ››
Whoa Diana, don't know who you're hanging out with but they sound like a drag and you seem to be all fired up about it! My girls nights out consist of copious amounts of booze and food, try that next time!
— Fussy posted 12/9/2008
it's good when the boyfriends aren't around because you get access to the whole woman. not as much that it's just chicks, it's instead just individuals.
— girrhatr posted 12/9/2008
I don't go! I just have to hear about them. Sure, enjoying time away from a partner periodically is a great sign of a healthy relationship, but there is nothing about men in general which makes it impossible to enjoy the same activities with them as with women. By saying there is, we just accept the status quo of stereotypical bad behavior (body loathing, manipulative behavior, insensitivity, inability to talk about emotions, what have you) by both genders. The only legitimate criteria for participation in social events should be whether the group of people in question are good, fun people who will enjoy doing similar things at the same place and time.
— Diana posted 12/11/2008
I bond with my female friends in a very different way than I do my male friends. And by assuming that when girls have exclusive girl time, it's to share tips on bulimia, blowjobs, Botox, and Blahniks demonstrates that it is you, Diana, who doesn't understand the diversity and complexity of single gender friendships. When I have a girls night, we discuss and support each other on the myriad of issues we have in our lives. We check in on each other during these times. We discuss family and relationship choices, our struggles with depression, health, male-dominated workplaces. And yes, sometimes we talk about frizz-free hair products. So what? I feel sorry for you if you don't have a group who provides you with the confidence, love, and support that my group of of female friends provides me with.
— girls! posted 12/12/2008
Sorry, could you repeat that? I was just talking to this vagina over here about my relationship choices and my struggles with depression.
— Diana posted 12/12/2008
I think perhaps you and I, Diana, have a social group where the differences between male and female aren't as grave as they are for girls!. I feel the same way, where the difference is only distinct when it is made to be. I agree with your peeve, it's regressive! It's segregationist! It's sexist!
— Charles posted 12/12/2008
Totally agree with the post from "Girls!" It's regressive to want to hang out with your friends without their lame-o partners???? That's just nuts. Our ladies nights exclude in an equal opportunity way. My lesbian friends also aren't allowed to bring their sig others. So it's not really a gender thing thing at all. And what's this about talking to vaginas about depression? It IS regressive to metonymize like that.
— Lindsay posted 12/13/2008
It's usually like a support group or a sorority. "Time for me" time, or whatever you call it, because your life is so full of hostility or poor choices you can only confront behind closed doors with your pals, pass the blame, let it out, laugh it off, feel self-righteous... because if you told anyone else, it'd be weak. The safety of the girls night out is to prevent anyone from being straight honest with you, critical or otherwise, that you can't handle without conferring with a pack of women to tell you what you should have said. Does this mean we're empowered now? Women friends are ok, it's just that I too find the "ladies night" ceremony a little on the alien side.
— Kerrin posted 12/13/2008
Lindsay, I agree with you, which would be why I said that partner-free nights are healthy. The whole point of my original post is to criticize events that exclude unnecessarily on the basis of gender, because, just as you point out, it *shouldn't* be a "gender thing." My metonymy above was meant to point out how limited and metonymizing it is for girls! assume one could never feel as emotionally fulfilled by M-F friendships as by a F-F friendships (and also to insert some humor rather that engage on the level of her personal attack, wherein she pulls the "I'm sorry for you" card and implies I have crummy friends). And, since this is not a political discussion forum, can we please stop commandeering Biffy's comments column? I'm sure he'd like other topics to get some time in the sun by now, but I am reachable for further discussion of similar issues through the bio info at: http://www.artnouveaumagazine.com/sept-oct/culture-column2.html
— Diana posted 12/13/2008
I agree with girls!. Just like I don't feel comfortable undressing in front of my male friends, there are certain things I prefer to discuss with women: sex, birth control, commiserating about experienced sexism, grooming. What's so wrong with that? I throw ladies nights and they fucking rock.
— Karolena posted 12/13/2008
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